Kal Penn Thank You Come Again
If yous didn't already know Kal Penn as 1 of the two hilarious dudes who went to White Castle in the Harold & Kumar flick franchise years ago, you lot probably know him as that actor who left his busy Hollywood career backside to go work in the Obama White House. But those quick sound-bite descriptions don't even come up close to describing a human being who is one of the funniest, smartest, and most caring people on the planet. Thankfully, for that, we have his brand-new memoir, You lot Can't Be Serious.
As you might already expect from a seasoned comedian and writer similar Penn, You Can't Exist Serious is laugh-out-loud funny, merely what's almost striking is simply how touching, insightful, and relatable the book is as well. Information technology wouldn't be a memoir, of course, without some secrets revealed, and they are certainly nowadays in You lot Can't Exist Serious, but the book feels more similar simply catching up with an sometime friend you oasis't seen in years rather than any celebrity memoir you've likely ever read. Information technology is, at in one case, thoroughly entertaining, well written, hilarious, and hopeful. In other words, Yous Can't Be Serious is exactly what we all need right now.
Shondaland defenseless upwardly with Penn — who recently revealed his longtime relationship with, and recent appointment to, his partner, Josh — via Zoom to chat about the book, his acting, working for sometime President Barack Obama, advocating for the AAPI customs, and the true story behind what one Hollywood agent really said most him before he finally made information technology in the business.
SCOTT NEUMYER: I love this book. I think information technology's really well written and funny and insightful. It feels similar you on the folio. Tin y'all give me some insight into why y'all decided to write your memoir and why now was the time to do it?
KAL PENN: Thanks for saying that. Ane of my goals in writing this was that I wanted information technology to experience like the person reading it was having a beer with me. I wrote this book with two sets of people in mind, knowing that there's an overlap. And so outset, the 22-yr-old version of me. The person who was just trying to navigate these things that we oftentimes recollect of equally being totally crazy and impossible, but having the energy of a 22-year-old. There was no guidebook near how to be an actor equally a young human of color, or how to work in public service. In fact, I mentioned in the book that my high schoolhouse guidance counselor said, "You can't have your cake and consume it too," and I was similar, "Oh, come on. Really?"
The other set of folks who I think would really appreciate this book — and it's quite a broad grouping of people at present that we're coming out of the final two years — is everyone who's ever been told that the thing they want to practise is crazy. We all have multiple interests. We all accept multiple passions in life. And sometimes we feel similar we shouldn't be able to pursue all of them. Or we just get that free energy from people, or they judge y'all a footling bit or look at you kind of funny for doing that thing that you want to practise. It could exist something as simple as "I'k gonna make this recipe, but he says I can't brand it." Or it could exist something as different as a lot of people are doing at present and but changing careers. Then, this book is also for them. It's for anybody who's always had that feeling and maybe been told, "You're a little crazy." I wanted to share my experiences with folks, and it seemed like the right time to do that.
SN: It feels very relatable, which I think that people get that vibe from you in general, since you're down-to-world.
KP: The chapters in the book were really inspired by a lot of conversations I've had with people over the years — the silver lining to playing characters that are mostly likable. Equally an actor, obviously, I've loved playing the murderer or the bad guy considering it'south just and then different from my personality. But the silver lining of playing characters who are likable is that people come up upwardly to you all the time and but share their stories. They simply start talking to y'all equally if yous've been friends for 10 years, and sometimes it's really emotional.
There was a bar in Chelsea called the Peter McManus Buffet that I would go to sometimes, and there was a guy, I want to say 2 or three years ago, who simply pulled up a seat and said, "My dad passed away six months ago, and we used to come up here all the time. We watched the Harold & Kumar movies together when I was in high school, and it'due south crazy that you're here right now." We but talked nigh his dad and his relationship with his dad.
A lot of questions during conversations similar that — people asking near me or my journey or my life — they're the stories that yous tin can never tell on a late-night prove. One of the early on tardily-night shows that I did years ago, I started telling a story almost one of the odd jobs that I had when I was trying to save up gas money in L.A. to go to auditions, and the host interrupted me and but said, "Come on, man. Who wants to hear that? Tell u.s. what it was like to work in Hollywood!" You can never tell these stories in audio bites, but people keep asking me most things like, "Hey, did you ever have odd jobs? Did you ever struggle? What were your frustrations in life and how did you get through those?" So this book was really an opportunity to share those stories in kind of an intimate style. And and so it's really nice to hear you say that information technology was relatable.
SN: You've been an actor and a theater child for nigh of your life. It tin seem from the outside like it's easy for you to be funny in person or on-screen, just how hard was it for you lot to transition that sense of humour to your writing?
KP: This was the first fourth dimension I've really written something that'south nonfiction that's also autobiographical, so most of the stuff that I've written is either fiction — Sunnyside, network comedies, or sketches with super-ridiculous characters — and and then I idea, "Well, I'1000 a writer. I tin can write a book." And I remember that first chapter that talks about heart school and getting bullied in the '90s, before bullying was called bullying back and so. Information technology was merely chosen middle school. I've told some of those stories, later like my fourth beer with buddies, and they're always funny stories, simply the first draft of that chapter in particular, when I sent it to my editor, she goes, "Wow, this is pretty night." And I felt like, "Why is this and so dark?" And I remember thinking, "I approximate we all e'er carry effectually a certain sense of memories that fifty-fifty though we think we've worked through, it's very different when you're telling a story over drinks than when you're actually going through crafting a narrative on the page." And so, I went through some more revisions, where I was like, "Oh, yes, this is information that's very necessary. This is information that I have at present that I'm an adult human that I've plain worked through, and I should peradventure acknowledge it in a way that talks about the darkness at that age, but too why it'southward funny to me at present."
SN: Then, you're at this point in your career where it seems like it's solid, right? You lot've done Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle , you've had critical acclaim with The Namesake , and you have a keen gig on House . Then, all all of a sudden, yous decide to leave acting and work in the White Firm. What do you experience at that moment? Nervous? Scared? Excited? All the to a higher place?
KP: Yes, definitely. All the above. I didn't intend to even go volunteer for the Obama entrada. The reason I got roped into all that was Olivia Wilde, who was on Firm with me. She knocked on my trailer door ane solar day and said, "Hey, I have a plus-one to a Barack Obama result. Do you want to come up?" And I said, "No." And she goes, "I saw you reading his book." And I was like, "Yeah, I mean, I read his book, just I know what political events in L.A. are like. People come in, and they ask you for money." She'south like, "No, no. It'southward not a fundraising issue." I was like, "Well, what is information technology then?" She goes, "Well, he's running for President." I coil my eyes. And I was like, "Okay, any. So, he'southward gonna ask for help. I'thousand not trying to practice any of that."
And she basically called me out on ii things. She said, "I thought you always talked near how your grandparents marched with Gandhi, and how that's fabricated you politically enlightened?" And I said, "My grandparents' story about Gandhi has made me very socially enlightened. And our family value was to always do the correct matter. That ways you write letters to your elected officials. Y'all show up for protests. You simply practice the right affair in your daily life. You lot don't get into politics." So, she actually lobbied hard. And I said, "You know what? You're a skilful friend. Okay. Information technology'south an open bar at some pocket-sized event. I'll merely go with you." And at that point, Obama was downward 30 points in the polls against Secretary Clinton and John Edwards. Most people couldn't even pronounce his name. They literally were referring to him equally "that Blackness guy with big ears who just became a senator." I mean, he talks about that too. That was sort of one of the colloquialisms of the time. So, I went to this effect, and I was really floored.
Do nosotros have fourth dimension for a super self-deprecating story?
SN: Absolutely.
KP: This is a story — it is in the book, but I always experience like I should mention it. Of class, by 2021 standards, information technology'southward like, "Oh, my God, he worked for Barack Obama!" Only, really, you lot have to retrieve, it was and so early that nobody really knew who he was. And so, when Olivia told me that we were going to this upshot, I looked on the Obama campaign website and was reading well-nigh their climate-change proposal. And I'yard a huge nerd. I subscribe to a magazine called Strange Affairs that'southward produced by the Quango on Strange Relations. And 2 months prior, I read an article in Foreign Affairs about how when you apply corn-based ethanol (so y'all can turn corn into ethanol for fuel), that i of the disadvantages is that it increases the price of corn in developing countries where people demand it for food. And then I'm reading Obama's campaign website, and he'southward talking virtually how he's going to invest in ethanol every bit a fuel source. Then, I kind of thought, "You know what? This is gonna be awesome. I'm gonna go in, and information technology's a room full of actors. They're gonna ask a agglomeration of player questions. And that's nifty, because we need questions about the arts, but I'g gonna take information technology up a notch. I'm gonna ask him a question about corn-based ethanol. I fancy myself a little smarter. I'chiliad gonna ask him this question."
So, Obama makes his way around the room, and I'm standing adjacent to Olivia, and he's perfectly dainty, very gracious. And I was like, "Senator, I have a question. I was reading about your environmental program. You're investing a lot in ethanol. You know, corn-based ethanol is going to arrive so that people in developing countries can't really beget food considering they use corn for food, then how practice you lot business relationship for that?" And he looks at me and just goes, "Oh, yep, I read that commodity in Foreign Affairs also. Yes, my plan is really a bridge to use corn-based ethanol to get to cellulosic ethanol so that we tin use things like grass clippings and leaves to make fuel." And so he just sort of smirks and walks off. And I was similar, "Yo, yo ... I just got schooled!" [Laughs.]
Then, Olivia turned to me, and of class, just berated me, only fabricated fun of me for even thinking that he wouldn't know the respond to that question. Nosotros both signed upwardly that night to volunteer for a three-day trip to Iowa, which has the first caucus, the first chief in the country. And I ended upwards being and then inspired by Obama'south staff, all of whom were likewise immature and working for almost no coin, really long hours because they genuinely believed in our ability to modify the state, that I ended upward staying, and kind of shuttled back and forth between working on Firm. And so the screenwriters went on strike, and so I essentially moved to Iowa for the next two months earlier the Iowa caucuses, which nobody expected Obama to win. Of course, he wins, and then I finish upwardly having the take a chance to travel to 26 other states.
Virtually people don't realize that in any campaign, presidential or not, if you start early and the campaign grows, you're trusted with more and more responsibleness because you were there early and you sort of know the candidate. You know the policies really well. So, after he won the Iowa caucuses, at that place was this incredible ramp-upwards, and I found myself working on youth outreach and arts-policy outreach, both of which were things that I had had experience working on. Asian-American outreach. I had taught a class in Asian-American studies and was finishing upwardly a graduate plan in cultural affairs. So, all of these other things that I've never really talked about in interviews because they're not sexy plenty to make information technology on the air, these are all things that fit into my ability to work on this campaign. Then the guy wins. He's our first Black president. There was an opportunity to serve at the White House, and I couldn't effigy out a way to non throw my hat in the ring, you know?
SN: That's an amazing story! Just the humanity of that story. Like, we look at politicians, and we think of when they get asked questions like that, and they're and then prepared, and there'south just this mindset that is like, "Oh, that person is prepared because they've been coached in this fashion so many times." Just at that moment, he was so human, and he knew the reply in a very personal way.
KP: Information technology's that personal stuff that really, I think, drives a lot of the bright side of politics and the potential. I talked nearly this in so much detail in the book. Then, if folks are interested in who are some people who have done incredible things, who are inspirational, I've met so many of them working on the entrada and working in the White House. And I talk about them in the volume for that reason. Because I retrieve our politics and our narrative these days is understandably and so divided. Nosotros focus on what'southward wrong and so much that we rarely get to smoothen a calorie-free on people who are very humbly keeping their heads downwardly doing actually proficient work. And they should be celebrated. Information technology'due south non just about somebody like me, who was an actor taking a exit of absence for a couple years. I knew that I was going to come back to interim. It's always been my starting time love. But it's the thousands and thousands of people around the country — hundreds of thousands, actually — who do this in their own lives. They volunteer with their church building or their synagogue or mosque, or they are part of a fraternity or sorority, and they tutor in one case or twice a week. There are and so many people that do that in their everyday lives, and we've lost sight of talking well-nigh it. And those are the people who, when they do annals to vote, when they do go involved in a political campaign — information technology doesn't have to be presidential. It can exist something local or land — you can make such a huge deviation in the lives of so many people. And that's been really inspiring to me these concluding few years.
SN: As someone who was on the frontlines of the AAPI customs for several years, do yous think that the last two years or so accept been i of the scariest times ever to be a function of that community in this country? Does it feel similar it's getting any better now?
KP: The interesting thing about the Asian American Pacific Islander community is that information technology's really made up of like 50 unlike subgroups. And it's crazy that they're all umbrellaed into one category because the feel of an Indian-American or Japanese-American immigrant who's a wealthy doctor because they moved here in the early on '70s versus, you know, a Hmong or Cambodian refugee or somebody who came here nether actually dire circumstances — those folks are looped into the same data-set category, and their lives couldn't be more unlike, and their needs couldn't be more different.
Undoubtedly, last yr was really tough on everybody, just disproportionately, I remember, for a lot of folks in the Asian-American community. The reason I point that out is, if you lot enquire folks who are Southward Asian, particularly the Pakistani-American community, post-9/11 was probably a lot tougher than the last ii years in terms of the way that people perceive you lot. But if you are East Asian, the last two years undoubtedly have been a really, really scary fourth dimension. I call up for many folks, and I can't speak for everybody, of class, but what'south always jarring in these types of times is that information technology'southward your neighbour that scares yous. It's the person in your own community where you remember, "I get that that could happen in this other null code. That could happen in this other part of town. But the fact that it happened down the street. The fact that it happened to somebody in my edifice or to my cousin or my friend, that's really scary." And that kind of makes you reassess. What do we need to do better about that? And in that location take been so many incredible conversations.
I mean, the End Asian Hate movement and all the anti-Asian violence that we've seen during Covid, the fact that there'southward overlap with Black Lives Matter, and it's sparking some really tough conversations between the Black community and the Asian customs about being there for each other. This is stuff that Black folks accept dealt with for centuries. And, equally Asian-Americans, I think nosotros need to do ameliorate at showing upwardly and making sure that we support folks in our community who are Black and chocolate-brown, and vice versa. There are just all these really, really cool conversations that are coming out of that. And so, I see that silverish lining. It'due south been, and will keep to probably be, very difficult. But the community building that'southward happening effectually? That has been pretty incredible.
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SN: When you started acting, yous literally used the proper name Kal Penn considering no ane would call you back, right? And then once y'all had this kind of "white-sounding proper noun," all the callbacks started coming. Is that accurate?
KP: It's not as cut-and-dry equally that. In previous snippets, yous know, yous gotta get in quick, so that's sort of what the story had presented itself as. I'1000 glad that I have a chance to explain it in a little more item.
Then, there were a couple things happening simultaneously. Beginning, yep, it took me three and a half years but to become an amanuensis. I went to UCLA, and I was function of their theater and film school, and so many other folks who were in my course were immediately getting signed by large agencies because UCLA is one of the top three theater and picture schools in the earth by most measures. So, what agent wouldn't want to represent a immature actor who's gotten into that program? Just I establish myself non having the take a chance to be represented, and I would transport my résumés and headshots out every Midweek to as many agents who were seeking submissions every bit I could. I found that in that location was a friend of mine — she, thankfully, gave me a thumbs-up on using the story in the volume and existence able to talk almost it openly — but her name is Jenna von Oÿ. Wonderful role player. She was on the testify Blossom. So, she said, "Hey, Kal, that's crazy that these people aren't calling y'all dorsum. Can I have your tape of some of your scene work into my manager's role?" And she, at the time, had this A-listing manager. I was similar, "Oh, my gosh, yes, please!" And she said, "You know, I'm certain he'll at least run across with y'all. I don't know if he'll sign you, just at least you can become that advice of, you know, kind of what you lot can practise differently. Or mayhap he'll sign you." Then, she took my tape, my headshot, and my résumé to her director'due south office.
She chosen me a couple days later and said something like, "Hey, practise you desire the truth? It'due south a lilliputian uncomfortable. Information technology's a little catchy." I said, "Yeah. What'd he tell you lot?" She goes, "Well, first, he said y'all were really adept, and he was really impressed. And he doesn't say that commonly, so I know that he means it." I was like, "Well, that'south great. What's the only?" She goes, "But he said that he doesn't want to meet with yous because he doesn't think that somebody who looks like y'all is ever going to piece of work in Hollywood. And it's not worth his fourth dimension, non simply to represent yous, simply not even to run across with you."
SN: Wow.
KP: And I idea, "Oh, so it's non that I could exist doing something differently in my performance on these tapes that I'thousand sending out. It'south not something that I could be doing differently in my training or the fact that I'm not qualified. It's the fact that I'1000 brown, and he just doesn't think information technology's worth his fourth dimension." And that actually floored me. I kind of took a crush and idea, "Well, what can I practice to increase my chances of getting my human foot in the door?" So, I decided to take my first name, which is Kalpen, and split information technology in half and add an "n." I jokingly say the "northward" stands for "non going to play a stereotypical cab driver." And I send out the new headshots and come across if it makes a divergence. And presently thereafter, an amanuensis did telephone call, and I did get signed, and I started going out on more auditions formally. So, the truth of the matter is, I don't know for a fact whether it was the new headshots, whether it was the more palatable screen name, or whether it was a combination of both. Merely, yeah, presently afterward that I saw my auditions sort of uptick and take off from at that place.
SN: That's an incredible story and just jaw-dropping to hear.
KP: Yous know, part of me, and I know for a lot of people listening where we just want the truth, sometimes information technology'due south oddly refreshing to know that people would be truthful that manner. That he didn't run across annihilation wrong with it, and I presume he didn't view it as racism. He viewed it as commerce. And, of course, as we all know, those ii things are incredibly entwined.
SN: Is there any risk, you lot call up, nosotros'll get a second season of Clarice ?
KP: I wish. We were supposed to have one. We got greenlit for a second flavour. We were on CBS, and we were beingness moved to Paramount+, the streaming platform. And so, they had greenlit it afterward the first season ended, and nosotros were all very excited. Then we got this crazy phone telephone call that said that it wasn't moving frontwards because Amazon had bought MGM, and MGM was our studio. And MGM didn't desire to piss off Amazon by moving the testify to a competing streaming platform, which is Paramount+. Then so, our natural reaction was, "Well, so are nosotros an Amazon Prime show?" No, they don't want to exercise that either because the deal hasn't fully gone through with Amazon acquiring MGM. Then, they're merely gonna throw away a perfectly good franchise because they're competing against each other. That'south the business of it, right? It'south about their bottom line. Then, it'due south actually frustrating. I also learned a lot. I retrieve this is an example of how the industry is evolving and irresolute a trivial bit. Simply it was a bummer considering it was such a great thing to be part of. The cast was crawly. The writing team and the directors were all really great. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to piece of work with them again on something else.
SN: What is the best advice you lot've ever received?
KP: It's from a adult female who I knew when I was early on in my academic career, right around the time that I was dealing with all of the chat about stereotyping and names. I don't recall her name, only I went to a chat with her with this player that the Screen Actors Guild was hosting. I wasn't a SAG member yet, but somehow I got in. And she was, I believe, the only Black actor, peradventure even the only Black adult female on network television set at the time. And somebody asked her, "How do y'all deal with rejection? And how do you deal with the fact that you're non getting hired considering of the color of your skin?" And she said, "I make certain that they know that that'due south why they're rejecting me. I make certain that I'm the best trained." Yous know, she was classically trained in Shakespeare. She had an MFA in interim, perhaps from Yale. I can't call up which drama school.
But she said, "When I go in there, and they know, they see my résumé. They know what I've done and what I'm capable of doing. And if, at the end of the 24-hour interval, they're not hiring me because they're hiring the middle-aged, blonde histrion with less training and less credits, they know why. And I've done everything that I can do to make sure that I've advocated for myself." And information technology was more of a question of how she keeps herself calm. She'south not creating some fantasy. She's non leaning into the undoubted anger that we all deal with when we're dealing with stuff like that. That was actually helpful to me, because I think the offset place you get is anger when you're dealing with bigotry, and she just sort of codified it in a way that acknowledged, "Aye, this is the reality, and I have to take intendance of myself too." And that was just really good advice.
Scott Neumyer is a writer from central New Jersey whose piece of work has been published pastThe New York Times, The Washington Post, Rolling Stone, The Wall Street Journal, ESPN, GQ, Esquire, Parade magazine, and many other publications. Y'all can follow him on Twitter @ scottneumyer .
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